Also, from a reader via email: "Wow this topic hits close to home.
Thanks for introducing her work to us!! I'll check her book out. Also, I'm curious how her methodologies apply to kids on the spectrum or kids with ADHD. It's quite a challenge, and in general, how does that apply to kids who have post-screentime meltdowns?
"You need the screen to satisfy your curiosity and addiction, I need to protect your young developing brain" ..!
If you have a follow-up with her. I am dying to know her reply to these questions ;) "
I love how the reader is already thinking in terms of each person's needs. School, screen time, and sweets, are three topics where it can be hard to truly meet everyone's needs; school for reasons discussed in the article, and screen time and sweets because companies have spent billions of dollars to make these products more addictive.
The child's age and ability to identify (with parental support) their feelings and needs will determine how far you can go here, and parents of children with severe challenges who are using screens to regulate and maybe to connect with like-minded peers may have very different screen time limits than children without these challenges.
That said, in both cases I would be looking to understand what specific needs the child is trying to meet using screens, and how much screen time they really want to have to meet that need, and the parent allowing that if it's possible. If that number is way too far over what the parent considers to be a healthy amount for a developing brain then the parent does have the role of protecting the child and in my opinion it's the parent's responsibility to use that (by setting screen time limits) if the child cannot self-regulate their own screen time.
There are others who would disagree with me, though...I recently interviewed Dr. Toby Rollo who made a case for essentially allowing children the same autonomy that we allow adults: https://yourparentingmojo.com/childhoodextrapolated/
On other issues, the process is very similar for autistic kids and those with ADHD. All people have needs, so trying to meet those needs while also meeting our own needs will always be helpful, if doing that fits with our values.
Wonderful response from Jen! I truly appreciate it. For those who may be interested, Jim Tully discusses “power over vs. power with” in a collection entitled “James Tully. To Think and Act Differently” edited by Alexander Livingston(2022, pp. 6,15, 38-39, 178, 227-238). He connected this with the theme of the Indigenous peoples that’s his longstanding specialty as a scholar.
Jen could make many connections here because Tully has explored the wisdom of Indigenous peoples in North America as Jen has about Gilligan and feminism. There’s an exciting synthesis of ideas when we consider connecting Tully on power, the Indigenous people and nonviolence with Jen’s work.
I’m interested especially in Gandhian thought, Engaged Buddhism and Queer Theory. Gilligan doesn’t examine these subjects and her comments on Gandhi in Different Voice are seriously misleading and inaccurate. But I did enjoy Jen’s exchange with her. Patriarchy is definitely at the root of many evils.
I’d like to hear more from Jen about how to practice nonviolent ideas, especially now as we face the catastrophic spread of war in the Middle East. Imagine how those children of war will carry such traumas into their adulthood! Incredibly tragic. DD
This book, "Parenting Without Power" , strikes an original note so I'm ordering it now. I've read and taught a lot about power in the context of political theory but not with this valuable perspective of relating it to children.
I wonder if Jen knows the writings of James Tully? He's a Canadian philosopher at UVIC who contrasts "power over" against "power with." He doesn't apply this concept to parenting but to government and society at large. I think that he would like Jen's explanation of power because it accords with his distinction of "power with" as non-hierarchical and cooperative.
I'm excited about exploring it because of its implications for feminist or queer theory, and then connecting it with parenting.
I'd also like to know what Jen thinks of Carol Gilligan's "In a Different Voice" or her recent "In a Human Voice"? Maybe this will be answered when I read Jen's book! DD
Thanks for the comment, Dennis! I actually don't know James Tully (the terrifying reality of being an autistic with a well-developed case of imposter syndrome is that the scariest part of publishing a book is finding out AFTERWARDS that there are critical ideas that should have been IN the book.😭
Based on his Wikipedia page, his thinking is very well aligned with my own. If you recommend one of his books in particular, I would definitely read it.
I love Dr. Gilligan's work; Brian Stout (who commented just before you) and I interviewed her a couple of years ago specifically on how patriarchy shows up in parenting, and then we chatted amongst ourselves in a follow-up about what we learned. Those episodes are here:
I’m intrigued by the interview, but I’m feeling challenged by the examples she gave at the end. I often feel touched out (homeschooler here, so with my kids all day), so some of the solutions that worked for her would not necessarily fit my needs. Of course, her needs and mine are different, so our family’s solutions would be different. I’m going to look into the book, but I can tell it would be tricky to give up power for me when asserting my power has been a method of me getting my needs met as a SAHM. I believe it’s important to learn about these dynamics and be curious about how our family can adapt, even if I’m not ready/capable of shifting my behavior all of the time right now.
Thanks so much for the comment, Katie. You're absolutely right that your needs and mine are different, so the strategies we use will be different. If you feel 'touched out' by the end of the day, I'd be looking for ways for you to take touch-breaks throughout the day, so you have more capacity by the end of the day. (That's a major challenge I see with a lot of parents - they go through the entire day ignoring or denying their needs, and then explode at their children at bedtime.)
I'm curious about how much of a self-care practice you have? Many parents I work with find that even when it seems like there's no time in the day, that self-care *creates* time, because when that need is met you then have more energy and capacity for other tasks in your day.
I'm also wondering whether sometimes you're mixing up needs and strategies to meet needs? If it seems as though you want your child to do a specific thing (e.g. you want them to put their shoes on and they are resisting), then you're working at the level of strategies. Once you understand each person's needs (your needs may be for ease, collaboration, and the child's safety; their needs might be for comfort, autonomy, and connection), then multiple potential strategies become possible (wearing more comfortable shoes; putting shoes on when you arrive at your destination rather than when you leave the house; you help them put their shoes on...).
I hope you'll consider playing with this and see if giving up power actually makes things a bit easier...
Thanks for the reply! I’m definitely better at self care at than I was when the kids were little. It’s always in flux. They change and I change and our family routine adapt. There are days where I have bandwidth to “do it right” and days where I don’t. I’ve gotten better at giving myself grace for that and repairing with my kids if needed.
Also, from a reader via email: "Wow this topic hits close to home.
Thanks for introducing her work to us!! I'll check her book out. Also, I'm curious how her methodologies apply to kids on the spectrum or kids with ADHD. It's quite a challenge, and in general, how does that apply to kids who have post-screentime meltdowns?
"You need the screen to satisfy your curiosity and addiction, I need to protect your young developing brain" ..!
If you have a follow-up with her. I am dying to know her reply to these questions ;) "
I love how the reader is already thinking in terms of each person's needs. School, screen time, and sweets, are three topics where it can be hard to truly meet everyone's needs; school for reasons discussed in the article, and screen time and sweets because companies have spent billions of dollars to make these products more addictive.
The child's age and ability to identify (with parental support) their feelings and needs will determine how far you can go here, and parents of children with severe challenges who are using screens to regulate and maybe to connect with like-minded peers may have very different screen time limits than children without these challenges.
That said, in both cases I would be looking to understand what specific needs the child is trying to meet using screens, and how much screen time they really want to have to meet that need, and the parent allowing that if it's possible. If that number is way too far over what the parent considers to be a healthy amount for a developing brain then the parent does have the role of protecting the child and in my opinion it's the parent's responsibility to use that (by setting screen time limits) if the child cannot self-regulate their own screen time.
There are others who would disagree with me, though...I recently interviewed Dr. Toby Rollo who made a case for essentially allowing children the same autonomy that we allow adults: https://yourparentingmojo.com/childhoodextrapolated/
On other issues, the process is very similar for autistic kids and those with ADHD. All people have needs, so trying to meet those needs while also meeting our own needs will always be helpful, if doing that fits with our values.
yay!! so glad y'all connected.
Boundaries make everything better. I have ordered Lumanian's book, in the event I can learn additional ways to think about them. Talk about them.
Re the story problem with the heartbroken ten year old: Losing familiarity, much less someone to giggle with, is awful at any age.
Wonderful response from Jen! I truly appreciate it. For those who may be interested, Jim Tully discusses “power over vs. power with” in a collection entitled “James Tully. To Think and Act Differently” edited by Alexander Livingston(2022, pp. 6,15, 38-39, 178, 227-238). He connected this with the theme of the Indigenous peoples that’s his longstanding specialty as a scholar.
Jen could make many connections here because Tully has explored the wisdom of Indigenous peoples in North America as Jen has about Gilligan and feminism. There’s an exciting synthesis of ideas when we consider connecting Tully on power, the Indigenous people and nonviolence with Jen’s work.
I’m interested especially in Gandhian thought, Engaged Buddhism and Queer Theory. Gilligan doesn’t examine these subjects and her comments on Gandhi in Different Voice are seriously misleading and inaccurate. But I did enjoy Jen’s exchange with her. Patriarchy is definitely at the root of many evils.
I’d like to hear more from Jen about how to practice nonviolent ideas, especially now as we face the catastrophic spread of war in the Middle East. Imagine how those children of war will carry such traumas into their adulthood! Incredibly tragic. DD
This book, "Parenting Without Power" , strikes an original note so I'm ordering it now. I've read and taught a lot about power in the context of political theory but not with this valuable perspective of relating it to children.
I wonder if Jen knows the writings of James Tully? He's a Canadian philosopher at UVIC who contrasts "power over" against "power with." He doesn't apply this concept to parenting but to government and society at large. I think that he would like Jen's explanation of power because it accords with his distinction of "power with" as non-hierarchical and cooperative.
I'm excited about exploring it because of its implications for feminist or queer theory, and then connecting it with parenting.
I'd also like to know what Jen thinks of Carol Gilligan's "In a Different Voice" or her recent "In a Human Voice"? Maybe this will be answered when I read Jen's book! DD
Thanks for the comment, Dennis! I actually don't know James Tully (the terrifying reality of being an autistic with a well-developed case of imposter syndrome is that the scariest part of publishing a book is finding out AFTERWARDS that there are critical ideas that should have been IN the book.😭
Based on his Wikipedia page, his thinking is very well aligned with my own. If you recommend one of his books in particular, I would definitely read it.
I love Dr. Gilligan's work; Brian Stout (who commented just before you) and I interviewed her a couple of years ago specifically on how patriarchy shows up in parenting, and then we chatted amongst ourselves in a follow-up about what we learned. Those episodes are here:
https://www.yourparentingmojo.com/patriarchy
https://www.yourparentingmojo.com/parentingpatriarchy
I quote Why Does Patriarchy Persist? in the book, but I hadn't seen In a Human Voice yet. Ordering it now. Thank you!
I’m intrigued by the interview, but I’m feeling challenged by the examples she gave at the end. I often feel touched out (homeschooler here, so with my kids all day), so some of the solutions that worked for her would not necessarily fit my needs. Of course, her needs and mine are different, so our family’s solutions would be different. I’m going to look into the book, but I can tell it would be tricky to give up power for me when asserting my power has been a method of me getting my needs met as a SAHM. I believe it’s important to learn about these dynamics and be curious about how our family can adapt, even if I’m not ready/capable of shifting my behavior all of the time right now.
Thanks so much for the comment, Katie. You're absolutely right that your needs and mine are different, so the strategies we use will be different. If you feel 'touched out' by the end of the day, I'd be looking for ways for you to take touch-breaks throughout the day, so you have more capacity by the end of the day. (That's a major challenge I see with a lot of parents - they go through the entire day ignoring or denying their needs, and then explode at their children at bedtime.)
I'm curious about how much of a self-care practice you have? Many parents I work with find that even when it seems like there's no time in the day, that self-care *creates* time, because when that need is met you then have more energy and capacity for other tasks in your day.
I'm also wondering whether sometimes you're mixing up needs and strategies to meet needs? If it seems as though you want your child to do a specific thing (e.g. you want them to put their shoes on and they are resisting), then you're working at the level of strategies. Once you understand each person's needs (your needs may be for ease, collaboration, and the child's safety; their needs might be for comfort, autonomy, and connection), then multiple potential strategies become possible (wearing more comfortable shoes; putting shoes on when you arrive at your destination rather than when you leave the house; you help them put their shoes on...).
I hope you'll consider playing with this and see if giving up power actually makes things a bit easier...
Thanks for the reply! I’m definitely better at self care at than I was when the kids were little. It’s always in flux. They change and I change and our family routine adapt. There are days where I have bandwidth to “do it right” and days where I don’t. I’ve gotten better at giving myself grace for that and repairing with my kids if needed.