Power plays

5 questions for parenting and power expert, Jen Lumanlan

When I was writing Learning in Public, one of my big goals was to make visceral and real how much of our intimate spheres—our parenting style, the emotional and financial lives of our marriages, our choices around school and summer activities—are, in fact, political. Truth be told, that is also what I’m often stretching towards here, in the Examined Family.

So it was with great interest that I learned about Jen Lumanlan’s work to do the same thing—let’s call it “the personal, including parenting, is political.” In her podcast, book, and moderated community, Jen has linked all the dynamics of power and oppression that we have been reading about and grappling with at work and in our political headlines, and brought them into the parenting realm. Turns out, we—the grown-ups—have an outsized power in so many of our families and we’re driving our kids and ourselves to the brink trying to wield it so unwisely. Intrigued to learn more? Meet a truly original and radical thinker, Jen…

Courtney Martin: Can you give a basic description of what this approach to parenting is all about?

Jen Lumanlan: I can try – it’s a big topic! I work with a lot of parents who are really struggling with their children’s behavior – the tantrums; the stalling; the refusing to do what they’re asked. I’ve also explored some pretty big social issues on my podcast, Your Parenting Mojo – things like White supremacy, patriarchy, and capitalism that have hurt a lot of people (although they have hurt some people much more than others).  

For a long time I couldn’t fully see the connection between these two seemingly unrelated topics, but finally I realized that the link between them is power. At their core, White supremacy, patriarchy, and capitalism are all about having power over other people. Our homes and families are where we transmit our personal and cultural values to our children. They’re watching us all the time. So when we use our power over them to get them to do what we want them to do, we are both modeling and teaching them to perpetuate these harmful social forces.  

If we want to create a world that heals from these forces, we have to create that ourselves, and we will create it through our relationships with others. We do this by seeing our children as whole people with valid needs – and also by seeing our own needs as well. When we hold both of our needs with equal care and weight and attention and find strategies to meet both of our needs, parenting gets so much easier in the short term. Our children stop resisting, because there’s nothing to resist when your needs are met. We are also modeling and teaching them how to be in relationships where we don’t use power to meet our needs – and using these strategies in the wider world will help us to dismantle and heal from White supremacy, patriarchy, and capitalism.

One of the things you know makes people resistant to this approach is that it will turn them into permissive parents and their kids won't have any discipline or respect. Can you talk about why that's not the case here.

I’m glad you asked this. I think it speaks to a huge problem in our culture that meeting someone’s needs is seen as being “permissive.”  

I also think we need to be really clear about what our values are as people; as parents; as families. Many of us want our children to grow up to be fulfilled human beings, and a big part of that is knowing their needs and being able to articulate them. Many of us do not have a goal of raising children who are submissive and who cannot think for themselves. When we focus so much on whether our children are doing what we say (and with a “good attitude”), we’re working counter to our goals.

What I am NOT advocating for is that we roll over and meet our child’s every need.  Far from it! That would simply perpetuate the patriarchal system where the mother’s only role is to give everything to her children. I am saying that your children are whole people with needs. You are also a whole person with needs. Probably 90% of the time, we can find ways to meet their needs AND your needs – and when we can do that, parenting gets a whole lot easier. The whole concept of discipline kind of goes out the window, because there are just two people in a relationship both of whom are getting their needs met.  

It’s also really important that we understand the difference between needs and strategies we use to meet our needs. It really muddies the water when we say things like: “I hear you want to play, but I need to cook dinner.” 

We say that our children have “wants,” but we have “needs.” 

In reality, our need for nourishment is just as important as our child’s need for play.  Our need for nourishment could be met by cooking dinner, or by throwing a frozen pizza in the oven, or by having cereal for dinner, or by picking up food or having food delivered…you get the idea. There are always multiple strategies we can use to meet needs.

You say parents need a lot fewer limits and a lot more boundaries. Can you explain that more?

Before we do that, it’s really important to understand the difference between limits and boundaries. A boundary is me saying: “I am not willing to…”.  So:

“I am not willing to get up from my breakfast to get you the green spoon.” 

“I am not willing to carry you up the stairs, because my back hurts.”  

A limit is when we try to change someone else’s behavior:

“You may not jump on the couch.” 

“You must tidy up now.” 

(“I am not willing to let you jump on the couch” is still a limit.)

Think about a time when someone else – maybe your partner, or your boss – tried to change your behavior: you probably didn’t like it. Our children don’t like it either.  

But again, that doesn’t mean that we’re going to let them do whatever they want. The key is for us to understand our own needs, and to know that we really can meet both people’s needs most of the time. And on the relatively few occasions when we can’t find a way to do that, our next best tool is to set a boundary. Then, we’re essentially saying: “I wish I could see a way that we could meet both of our needs, but right now I don’t, and the strategies I can think of to meet your needs would mean that mine don’t get met. Right now I’m going to prioritize my needs, and I hope we can find a way to meet both of our needs in future.”  

It still doesn’t always feel amazing to be on the receiving end of someone else’s boundary, but it’s a much different conversation than when we say: “I don’t care what your needs are; stop doing X.”

Okay case study time: my older daughter (10-years-old) is not in class with her best friend this year and she is NOT HAPPY about it. She’s got a very strong story about it--she needs to be with her friend or she cannot be happy. In other words, there is only one solution she has been willing to consider and that is switching classes. I would like to help her be more creative with her story and learn the power of having multiple ways to get her needs met. Life is full of these kind of experiences, right? How would you handle it if you were me? (So far, she mostly experiences me as tone deaf, it seems, when I suggest alternative ways of seeing or approaching it.) 

This is a classic example of mixing up needs and strategies. The strategy your daughter has decided on is to switch classes, but this is not her need. I don’t know her so I can’t know exactly what her needs are, but I would hypothesize that they would be something like belonging, safety, joy and fun in school, autonomy, as well as connection to and communication with her friend. 

We also have to acknowledge that she is in school, which is an environment that for the most part is not set up to meet needs like belonging, safety, joy, fun, and autonomy.  It can be difficult (although not impossible) to meet everyone’s needs in a system where there is relatively little flexibility.

What we’re looking for here is whether there are ways for her to meet her needs with strategies other than switching classes. Some strategies might include:

• Developing a closer relationship with her teacher

• Focusing on other friendships in the classroom, and spending out-of-class time with her best friend

• Knowing that friendships do wax and wane, and while this friend may always be her friend, other people will be her friends too

• Supporting her with school work and/or other relationships if she’s feeling unsafe in the classroom

• Looking for other aspects of being in school which may be fun 

• Communicating with her friend in other ways (letters, care packages, etc.)

• Supporting her ability to make decisions about other things that are important to her (e.g. what she eats, how she spends her time, etc.) 

She may still resist your attempts because being with her friend is the easiest way to meet all of these needs with one simple action, but you’ll open up the possibility of using other strategies. You’ll be much more able to put this into practice using an example between the two of you, where many more strategies may be possible.

photo by Alvin Lumanlan

Can you give us examples of things that you and your kid have agreed on over the years using this methodology?

Most of what we agree to are ways to adjust the simple everyday activities of life. Some of these have included:

• Age 2.5: No longer requiring Carys to be in bed at a certain time and instead play quietly in her room after 8pm (her needs for joy and fun instead of lying in bed bored when she isn’t tired; my needs for quiet, rest, competence in my work, and self-care)

• Age 3: Working with Carys and then her teachers so she can have quiet play time on her mat instead of napping (her needs for joy and fun instead of the boredom of quiet rest when she wasn’t napping anymore; teacher’s need for peace, ease, and supporting the other children)

• Age 4: I would brush her teeth in the living room (her need for autonomy; my need to protect her health)

• Age 5: She sits on our forced air heater during dinner when she’s cold (her needs for warmth and comfort; my needs for communication and connection are still met)

• Age 6: I still help her to get dressed when she’s having a hard time, even though she’s capable of doing it herself (her needs for connection and ease; my needs for ease and responsibility to colleagues)

• Age 7: We cut off half of her hair so the short half would be easier to brush, and she could find out the natural length of the long half (her need for comfort and learning about her natural hair length; my need for ease)

• Age 8: When she is feeling lonely at bedtime, I work on my laptop next to her in bed until she falls asleep (her need for comfort; my need for competence in my work)

• Age 9: We now problem solve so easily that we don’t even think too much about it anymore.  At the moment we are more focused on the topic of full consent: making sure that our verbal and non-verbal communication match each other, so we are in full consent when we agree to do things for and with each other.

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We are donating to Sogorea Te’ Land Trust in honor of Jen’s labor. Buy the book here. Listen to the podcast here.

I’m so curious - what do you all think about this approach?